Paltalk Christian Chat Christmas Eve

Sitaram: one problem about the notion of A RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS, is that in the first 1000 years of Christianity, the concept of the importance of a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus was never mentioned, nor did martin Luther or John Calvin of the reformation speak in terms of a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus

Sitaram: the theology which emphasized RELATIONSHIP with Jesus is only very recent, since early 20th century

Sitaram: rapture is never explicitly mentioned in king james translation...

Sitaram: but, Jesus told one man that he could gain eternal life by observing the commandments

Sitaram: the very first pages of the new testament was an epistle by Paul, around the year 55 A.D., so that means that for the first 20 years, the Christians did NOT have the Gospels, or Epistles, but only the Old Testament

Sitaram: actually Jesus said, you are my FRIEND IF you do as I say... so, that sounds like works to me...

Sitaram: Paul said 'WORK OUT your salvation with fear and trembling", so, if the TV ministers are right, and you just say the magic words, and get eternal security of salvation... then, why would you need to WORK OUT your salvation with fear and trembling

Sitaram: the vision of prophet Ezekiel, the resurrection of the dry bones, suggests that a physical body is necessary in the resurrection

Sitaram: it is stressed that Jesus, after the resurrection, ate fish and honey,.... to stress the fact that Jesus had a physical body

Sitaram: the Jehovah's Witnesses say that there was no physical body, only a spirit

Sitaram: i am just contrasting with regard to physical body in resurrection

Sitaram: vision of Ezekiel, and Jesus eating fish and honey

Sitaram: Peter II epistle says something very interesting "Paul has said some things which are difficult to understand, and those who are weak in mind twist and distort them to their own destruction, as they do many other Biblical passages"

Sitaram: Paul said that he disciplines his flesh, lest, having led others , he should LOSE his own salvation

Sitaram: for example, the KJV correctly translates from Revelation "and TIME SHALL BE NO MORE", BUT the NIV mistranslates the Greek as "and there shall be no more delay"

bobbylips: i like this song

Sitaram: the Greek is Kai Xronos ouketi estai

Sitaram: which can only mean that time is no longer

Sitaram: so, it is just like quantum and relativity

Sitaram: time itself ceases

Sitaram: and, the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll.... i.e. space ceases

Sitaram: that phrase about "rolled up like a scroll" appears only in one other place, in Isaiah i think

Sitaram: so, it is describing something similar to Stephen Hawking in "A Brief History of Time"

bobbylips: Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Sitaram: so, time and space cease to exist

Sitaram: KJV correctly translates "time shall be no longer"

Sitaram: NIV is incorrect in saying "there shall be no more delay"

Sitaram: which implies that temporality continues

Sitaram: for the first 1000 years of Christianity, the Greek orthodox totally integrated old testament and new testament into one understanding

Sitaram: roman catholic theology is significantly different from greek orthodox, and Luther and Calvin of the reformation are radically diffent innovations

Rambo-55: DIOGR ARE YOU SAVED BY JESUS CHRIST OR ALL THESE DOCTOLOGIES OF THE DIFFERENT DENOMINATIONS.....

Sitaram: that is one sectarian theory

Sitaram: consider charles stanley's doctrine of eternal security of salvation, which is not accepted by all protestant denominations

Sitaram: but is severly criticized

Rambo-55: DIOGR OSAS IS REJECTED BY A LOT OF PEOPLE BUT CHARLES STANLEY IS NOT ONE OF THEM....

Sitaram: and, the calvinist notion of limited atonement is rejected by Baptists and others

Sitaram: so, bottom line, it is naive to speak as if there are not many sectarian differences between denominations, and to claim to be the ONE TRUE sort of Christian, who is beyond sectarianism

Rambo-55: WHO CARE WHAT THEY THINK THE BIBLE IS THE TRUTH NOT THE CALVINIST OR THE BAPTISTS OR ANY OTHER DENIMINATION OR CULT...OK???

Sitaram: i mean, if it makes you feel good (and obviously it makes many feel good) then you can say OH WE ARE TRUE Christians, and saved,.... but, you are not dealing with actual history, or the facts of the many denominations today

Rambo-55: WE ARE NOT SAVED BY HOW GOOD SOMETHING FEELS THAT IS NEW AGE....WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE THRU FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST...ONE WAY....SO YOU PEOPLE TALK AND DREAM ALL YOU WANT THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO SALVATION...

Sitaram: why does JEsus tell a parable about people who come to him at the judgment and say "Lord Lord, we worked miracles in your name", and Jesus says, "go away I never knew you"

Sitaram: How can you understand that parable, and the others, who are totally shocked when he says "i was naked and clothed me..." and they even say "when did we do all these things"

Sitaram: surely, the first group who said "Lord Lord", were confessing Jesus in their lives, and believed themselves saved...

Sitaram: why does Jesus describe the way as "straight and narrow, and FEW find it"

Rambo-55: THAT WAS IN THE BEATITUDES THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT AND IT WAS JESUS TELLING THE CHRISTIANS HOW THEY SHOULD SERVE HIM....

Rambo-55: WHY DONT YOU GET A BIBLE AND READ IT??? AND WHAT ARE YOU ANYWAY DIOGR ANYTHING????

Sitaram: well, I cannot imply ignore 2000 years of history and scholarship, and simply go along with your notions...

Sitaram: why does Paul say "work out your salvation with fear and trembling", if salvation is such an easy matter

Sitaram: why does epistle of II Peter say there are some who are weak in mind, and twist and distort scriptures to their own destruction

Sitaram: you see, you cannot deal with my questions intellectually, with scholarship, you can only attack or criticize me on a personal level, which is called AD HOMINEM

Sitaram: so, what do you think of Huckabee,.... is he a Christian, is he saved?

clearkat555: father come and spend time with us your children

Sitaram: i mean, he was an ordained pastor, and then he ran for presidential nomination, and you had a chance to hear him speak


Rambo-55: SEE YOU CANNOT TELL US IF YOU ARE A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN EITHER SO WHO ARE YOU TO CONDEMN US SO DIO DO YOU HAVE THE GUTS TO ANS THE ROOM ARE YOU A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN...???YOU LOVE TO TRY TO IMPRESS US WITH YOUR IGNORANCE....

Sitaram: so, can you say of ANY OTHER PERSON that you know, that they are saved?

Sitaram: IF you say NO, then I shall ask you how you can be so certain that you are saved

Sitaram: since, during the first 1000 years of Christianity, no one ever spoke in such terms, of "being saved"

clearkat555: born again dio born again

Sitaram: this is all a very recent theology, that began in the mid 19th century

Sitaram: but you see, the problem is, a lot of this is just rhetoric, words, slogans repeated over and over... it is not careful scholarship

Sitaram: well, i thought you were suppose to LOVE your enemies

Rambo-55: BYE DIOGR YOU MUST BE A MUSLIM......ON IGNORE...

Sitaram: so, i am not even your enemy, yet , you are unable to love me

Sitaram: but, you have to WORK OUT your salvation

Sitaram: what i personally believe is not germane

Sitaram: not pertinent

Anne49MI: dodging your question

bobbylips: diogr...work out...i reason out a math problem 2+2=4...same with our salvation...we are to reason it out...know what Christ has done on the cross for us

Rambo-55: WE DONT NEED TO WORK OUT OUR SALVATION IT IS A FREE GIFT OF GOD NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY SHOULD BOAST.....

Sitaram: you must justify your beliefs with reasoned arguments from scripture and history

Sitaram: and i doubt that many people can do that

Sitaram: you are totally missing my point

Sitaram: what i personally do or do not believe is not the issue

Rambo-55: HE DONT HAVE A POINT HE MUST BE A MUSLIM.....

Sitaram: the issue is, can you defend your beliefs without making some personal referance to me

Sitaram: but, all that many people understand is ad hominem attack

bobbylips: certainly d

clearkat555: rambo no one of those educated kind

HumanMaik: High Leveled Secret discution going on here or it is hokus pohus

Sitaram: ok, let me explain more clearly.... let us pretend, that you find a bottle in the ocean, with some difficult questions about your beliefs... and you must write a book, to answer those questions

Sitaram: so, you have no individual to question, as to their personal beliefs, or their morality

bobbylips: i would show you scripture

HumanMaik: no new Bible will be Written .....

Rambo-55: RIGHT ON MILES THIS IS UNCALLED FOR..... DOT HIM AND LET HIM LEARN BY LISTENING HE ISNT HERE TO SERVE THE LORD ANYWAY....

bobbylips: yes clear...two are set up...i'm just waiting to hear the pop

clearkat555: bobby i hate traps but i hate mice more

Sitaram: so, you must take those questions, those problems, and you must write a book, like Martin Luther, or Aquinas, or Augustine.... and future generations must read your book, and be convinced

Sitaram: but, i dont think you can write that book

bobbylips: ...why would i want to write a book...the bible is enough

Sitaram: in otherwords, you must be able to defend your beliefs, which is what Paul had to do in the Roman world

bobbylips: i would just point them in the direction of the scripture

Sitaram: yes, but each of the hundreds of denominations understand those scriptures very differently


Rambo-55: WE DO NOT NEED TO DEFEND THE WORD OF GOD... BUT YOU NEED TO DEFEND YOUR IGNORANCE AND YOU WILL STILL GO TO HELL....

HumanMaik: nonesensence

Sitaram: so, how do you go about loving your enemy

rpmark5: hey sun i got the big boot uugh

clearkat555: the word can stand on its own

bobbylips: by sharing the truth with them

Sitaram: i am not your enemy, yet you seem to hate me simply because i dont agree with everything you say

Sitaram: so, many have ignored me, perhaps

HumanMaik: no need to hate, just neclect your opponents

bobbylips: ...now you are being presumptuous

Sitaram: someone once said to me "i have to LOVE my enemies, but i dont have to LIKE them"

Sitaram: it is like that question "but who is my neighbor"

Sitaram: but, you see, all you understand is how to criticize ME as an individual, which is argumentum ad hominem (against the person)... but you do not have the ability to defend your beliefs on the basis of scripture and history